The four levels of listening and conversation
The way we listen and pay attention in a conversation can profoundly shift the quality and depth of that conversation, and the quality of relationship we are able to build to one another. Listening is probably the most underestimated leadership and community building skill.
At collaboratio helvetica, we strive to bring different individuals, stakeholders and organisations together in dialogue, in order to gain a deeper systemic understanding of societal challenges and find new ways for how to prototype potential new solutions together. Practicing our listening skills, how we can actually be present with each other with curiosity and compassion instead of further emphasizing polarization, is one of the core fundamentals of this work.
Context
The 4 levels of listening and conversation originate from the Theory U, developed by the Presencing Institute at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology). They are an integral part of any U process, and can also be used for practicing dialogue as a form of conversation that helps us gain a deeper understanding of different perspectives. This allows individuals and groups to connect to each other in a way that is more inclusive, open and respecting potential differences.
“Listening is probably the most underrated leadership capacity today, but listening is really at the source of all great leadership. When we see leadership failures, and today we see have many opportunities to see that, very often at the source of these failures is a lack of listening. A lack of connecting to what is really going on in reality right now.”
— Otto Scharmer, Theory U
4 levels of listening and conversation
1. Level of Listening: Downloading
This first level of listening is characterized by listening from our habits, from what we already know. So basically we “download” and project our assumptions into the present situation, hence we also listen to what we already know. The result of this kind of listening is that we reconfirm our existing opinions and judgements. Now in some situations this can be a very helpful way of attending to the world outside. If we think for instance of an apple, we know from experience that it is a healthy and tasty item to eat, so it saves us time if we can use our previous assumptions about apples so that we don't need to reevaluate every single time if an apple is healthy or potentially poisonous. Nevertheless in human interaction this level of listening blocks us from understanding other perspectives and opening our mind to new possibilities, and makes dialogue and collaboration impossible.
2. Level of Listening: Factual
When listening from level two we are starting to open our mind. That is, we start to pay attention to what is different from how we thought it is. We start to pay attention and collect disconfirming data. This level of listening is embedded in our scientific paradigm, all good science teaches to pay attention to disconfirming data as it is the source of innovation. The main driver of this kind of listening is curiosity.
3. Level of Listening: Empathic
Empathic listening is where we start to see the world through another person's eyes. It is only from this level of listening where our center of attention starts to move “outside of us” or beyond what we know. When I engage in downloading, my center of attention is within me, not noticing what is going on outside. Level two is still centered within me, but I am starting to pay attention to what is going on outside and I notice the differences to what I assumed to be true from my own experience. When practicing empathic listening with an open heart, the center of attention is focused on the experience of the other person(s). In fact, this allows us to gather much more information about the situation than what we might think. When seeing a situation from another person's perspective and experience we may experience feelings and thoughts we would otherwise not have connected with. It is through experiencing those feelings and perspectives that a deeper connection can unfold as the other person will start to feel heard, understood and seen as who he/she is.
4. Level of Listening: Generative
This fourth level of listening is something we don’t usually experience on a daily basis in our interactions with others. The key difference here is that there is something happening with the center of attention. It is no longer located in one specific person, rather the center, or source, from where the listening happens has no specific perspective anymore. It is somewhat “between” people. Otto Scharmer says in the u.Lab course on edX that the source of listening starts to happen from the field. It is in these moments when something really new can emerge, as we let go of our own sense of Self and together engage in a conversation where we let come what we don’t yet know, together. Here we open our will to be changed by the conversation. We start to see reality with fresh eyes, and welcome yet unknown aspects. In generative listening we connect with one another and with an emerging future potential.
4 Levels of conversation
Linked to the four levels of listening are the four levels of conversation, which emerge as a consequence of how we listen and pay attention.
1. Level of Conversation: Politeness / Smalltalk
When instead of really listening we are just “downloading”, reconfirming old habits, assumptions, opinions and judgment, nothing new will really happen in this conversation. We could call this level of conversation the level of politeness and smalltalk.
2. Level of Conversation: Debate
Once we start opening our mind and listening with curiosity, we start noticing differences and disconfirming or new data. This is the level where a good debate can take place, a conversation where we present to each other our opinions, grounded on facts and data.
3. Level of Conversation: Dialogue
When we start opening our hearts, we can establish an emotional connection to another person and listen with compassion. This is where dialogue becomes possible, and we can learn to see a situation or topic through another person’s eyes. This is the level of conversation we generally strive to reach at collaboratio helvetica in the different formats we are hosting, like Social Innovation Labs or dialogue evening.
By "dialogue" we mean the kinds of conversations that change something in us when we take part in them, and that shift something between the people who are involved in the conversation. Dialogues invite us to take the “risk” of being authentic and to co-create a space where others can do the same. Dialogues are about challenging our habits of thought and conversation: listening with attention, speaking with intention and daring to turn the camera around to face ourselves and the roles we might have within the systems we are trying to change.
The Dialogue Space is a space where we try to learn and understand not through facts or intellectual knowledge, but through seeing another perspective through the eyes and story of someone else, and through getting a new sense of the broader ecosystem that the discussed issue is part of.
4. Level of Conversation: Collective Creativity
The fourth level of conversation cannot be forced or reached through sheer “doing”. It emerges in a group that has established a field of trust and the capacity to hold different perspectives is practiced. This level of conversation manifests when listening starts to happen “from the field” and the conversation starts to emerge from the collective intelligence of the group. It’s those moments when the source of creativity opens, when things just seem to be building on each other by themselves, or when somebody else in the room says what I just wanted to say. The conversation seems to be coming more from the collective rather than from one or several individuals. Those are the moments when something new can arise and surface.
Obstacles on the way of moving to deeper levels
In order to move from downloading to factual listening, we need to suspend our Voice of Judgment (VoJ) and open our mind. The underlying dynamic of the VoJ is to reconfirm existing mental models and world-views. It closes down the mind and tries to protect you from new ideas or information. Curiosity helps to overcome this obstacle.
In order to move to the level of empathic listening, we need to suspend our Voice of Cynicism (VoC) and open our hearts. The underlying dynamic of the VoC is to close the heart by being cynical about other people's intentions or potential outcomes. It’s trying to protect you from emotionally connecting. Compassion helps to overcome this obstacle.
In order to move to the level of generative listening, we need to suspend our Voice of Fear (VoF) and open our will. The underlying dynamic of the VoF is to shut down action and move you away from “taking a leap of faith”. You can think of this voice as your subconscious that is sensing that “something would change” if a certain action would be taken, an assumption and its implications really accepted. The voice of fear tries to protect you from the danger of the unknown. It can activate strong reactions as we are in little or larger ways asked to let go of an idea of who we are and who we might be. What is needed to overcome this obstacle is Courage.
Why and when to use this method
The levels of listening are relevant for all kinds of conversations and can substantially change the quality of our conversations, also in our daily life. We recommend practicing them as often as possible. If you are curious to track your progress, there is a useful online tool from the Presencing Institute for this purpose (click on the tab “Assessment”, you will have to create an account to get access to the tool).
In our context, the levels of listening are especially important when doing stakeholder interviews and when bringing together people in different dialogue formats and longer processes as for example a Social Innovation Lab.
“This weekend deeply shifted my ability to listen with the heart. To shift from my head into my heart in a conflictual discussion in my private life, which had a very healing impact on the relationship of the involved persons. This was a deep learning for me of deep listening.”
— testimonial from a participant of the Catalyst Lab
Sources and Further literature
Written by Sarah Friederich, with some text elements from Oswald König
Sarah Friederich was part of the Catalyst Lab design and hosting team at collaboratio helvetica and in this role supported the implementation of the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). As a facilitator (Theory U, Art of Hosting, Dialogue) she supports diverse projects in the area of social innovation with design and facilitation of participatory events and group processes. The promotion of new forms of collaboration and systemic change are an integral part of her work. For many years, she has gained experience working for NGOs and social organisations in the field of environmental and social justice in Switzerland and Bolivia.
In addition to her work with collaboratio helvetica and as a facilitator, Sarah supports people as a coach in their personal development processes, especially in the process of grieving after the loss of a loved one.